Gwen- I love your voice in this post. Clarity and dignity and taking care of yourself.. do you know about www.girlsgonemild.com? You might want to check it out...
LaLou
· 11 months ago
Gwen--I have to say I was right with you, even nodding along, until I came to the last three paragraphs.
For me your tone changed with "countless sexual partners..." going from inclusive to exclusive--putting down others who had made the opposite decision.
Even though I'm not celibate I can definitely count my partners, I don't consider myself "easy" or a dime a dozen, and miraculously, I can walk down the street without my uncontrollable legs just springing open. Further, I'm looking for self-worth, not for someone to decide I'm worthy of their assets and name.
I agree with much of what you wrote in this piece but the negative turn really threw me.
Diane
· 11 months ago
What an interesting piece; it's always good to read about others' experiences and I was fascinated by your stance and why you have taken it.
But I wonder if your attitude towards feminists (some of whom couldn't care less about getting married as a goal in life - I'm one of them!) and women who have a lot of partners (are we still calling women sluts and men studs?!) is a little derisive. Women can be emotional and intelligent and self-respecting and want to have a lot of sex with different people, just as men can - to each their own.
You say "Because sex is such an emotional act, particularly for women, it can often lead to feelings of unworthiness, self-loathing, depression, and uncertainty about the direction of the relationship if there is no foundation of marital commitment." That sounds really sad to me - and I'm not sure it's true for the majority of women.
You're also not differentiating between long-term relationships and one night stands, when I think there's a lot of difference - it's not always marriage or no commitment at all.
But you certainly made me think about all this, so thank you :)
Emajin
· 11 months ago
I happen to agree with your conclusions. I have been celibate since ending a six-year relationship with my child's father last year. Among the lessons learned in that relationship was that without the level of committment that is inherent in a marriage, I don't feel like I can make the emotional connection that makes sex such an incredible experience. The physical reaction is fleeting, but the emotional and spiritual intimacy that you share with that other person to me is what makes sex so incredibly satisfying....
Mel
· 11 months ago
A very strange piece.
At first I admired your honesty and courage as a sexually awakened woman making an unusual decision, and then, like others, was surprised by the sudden degeneration into 'slut-shaming'.
Fine, premarital sex doesn't work for you. But how do you move from that conclusion to making barbs at 'easy' girls who 'can't keep their legs together'? If a woman chooses not to be celibate before marriage, does that automatically put her in the category of 'STD-ridden, single-mother slut with no self-control? Your column seems to suggest you think so. 'Easy girls are a dime-a-dozen'? Really? And of all the wonderful, attractive qualities these women might possess, any decent man would/should pass them up in favour of someone who can 'keep their legs closed'?
I have plenty of friends whose loving partners were only too happy to slip a ring on their unchaste fingers... yes, even a few whose relationships started with sex on the very first date! And then there are those for whom a wedding is not the ultimate payoff in a relationship, but who are in very happy long-term partnerships regardless.
Perhaps your celibacy gives you a sense of superiority over those who have not made the same choice, but I'm not sure many people find that an attractive quality.
Gwen Jimmere
· 11 months ago
Thanks for all the comments, ladies! I understand my opinions here aren't popular, so was prepared for mixed comments. :)
@Pearl and Emajin: Thanks so much for your shared sentiments. That book on the girlsgonemild.com site looks like something I need to get my hands on. Thanks, Pearl!
@LaLou and Mel: Hmmm...I'm not so sure you have interpreted my statements in the manner in which they were intended. If they weren't clear, allow me to clarify now: I don't believe I have bashed anyone. I began by stating my reasons for my celibacy and concluded by stating how I came to this reasoning. There is obviously a large difference between promiscuous women and those who have sex with only their partners. I assumed it was explicit that I was not speaking of every single woman who is not celibate. Celibacy isn't for everybody; I know this. But it's for me at this stage in my life. I believe, someone with countless sex partners before the age of 25 or 30 would fall into the promiscuous category. If you can't count the number of partners you've had, there is a problem. I believe most people would agree with me on this. If I were "bashing" everyone who had sex before marriage, I would be bashing myself, as well, yes? I haven't done that.
Also, I'm not quite sure where the idea that I have called anyone a slut comes from. I haven't mentioned the word "slut" anywhere at all. In fact, I've stated "in my opinion" and "in my experience" several times throughout, which would mean these are conclusions I have come to based on my personal experiences. My story is bound to be different from others, which I am aware of. Celibacy does not give me a sense of superiority and no one (male or female) who I have come in contact with has seemed to feel as if I am putting myself on a pedestal (and I do know quite a few outspoken folks who would tell me if I was getting out of hand. LOL). However, in my opinion, it does take tremendous inner strength to choose celibacy and actually remain celibate, especially when you aren't a virgin, and therefore, have a real idea of what sex feels like (emotionally and physically). I have a very close male friend who plays in the NFL and has been celibate for just under four years. Now if that's not an example of inner strength (with all the groupies he comes in contact with, ready to give him whatever he wants), I don't know what is. If I am "bashing" anyone at all, it would be the men who I stated feel as if a celibate woman thinks she's "too good" -- and I haven't even bashed them.
The point I attempt to make is that if a man can't be with you without the sex aspect, he is not worthy of you. Heck, I had a "friend" who I knew for years. He made it clear over the years he wanted something more than a friendship, but was fine with settling for that role. Once I became celibate, he and I had a conversation about it, and I have not heard from him since that day. Obviously, this wasn't a friend to begin with. This is the type of thing I am talking about. Since choosing to be celibate, I have learned so much about the men in my life, it's ridiculous. Some have disappeared, others have stuck around. For me, in the past, sex has overshadowed a lot of good and bad I could have learned about someone. By not having sex, there are so many deal breakers I discover at the beginning because (again, for me) great sex isn't in the way to blindside my good sense.
Hope that clears things up. :)
@Diane, Thanks for your comments! Again, I think I may have been misunderstood. I don't have a bad attitude toward feminists. I do know some feminists who really loathe men (many would call them bra-burners, which usually isn't true. lol) and I only intended to make clear that I do not hate men. Also, a great deal of women I work with do suffer depression, self-loathing and the other symptoms mentioned, after they have sex with someone they really want a future with. Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but many cannot handle the emotional aspects that derive from sex. They start bugging the guy about "where this is going", hounding him about his whereabouts, assuming they are in relationships when (for him) it was just sex, etc. But I do agree with you, it is very sad. :(
If your body is your temple, I don't see how anyone (male or female) can have lots of sex with lots of different people and be self-respecting, but then again, that depends on what you determine to be "a lot". I know a man that has had sex with 143 women and he is 30 years old. (and no, I wouldn't call him a stud...at all. LOL)
Thanks for taking the time to respond! The phrase "bra burners" just happens to get my back up, as does the suggestion that feminists hate men. But if you're not saying or suggesting all feminists are rabid man-haters, then okay.
You say "If you can't count the number of partners you've had, there is a problem." but why is that, exactly? Apart from the risk of STDs that is... I just don't think it's anyone's right to judge others and I feel that women are too often criticised for being sexual beings.
And I guess my main issue is that you're extrapolating what you deeply feel so that it becomes fact, or something a lot of women feel/believe. I think I would have just preferred to read about your experiences, without them being compared with other women. We never really know what motivates others, after all.
I think women who obsess over relationships don't necessarily need celibacy, but if it takes over their lives, may need therapy -- or at least to look at why they're obsessing. Insecurity? Loneliness? Self-hatred?
If celibacy is the right choice for you that's great and I can understand that choice. But towards the end of your piece, where you say "As a woman, what does it say about someone who possesses so little control that she cannot keep her legs closed for a year or so until the guy that supposedly loves her decides she is worthy of his assets as well as his last name?" It just felt so old-fashioned and unfeminist (as in, rules are different for women, women should have self control so men want them, whether a couple has sex is always down to a woman's self-control or lack thereof) and I couldn't and didn't want to relate to that.
x
Mel
· 11 months ago
Likewise, Gwen, thanks for your explanation. Although obviously unintended, the article did seem to paint a dichotomy between virtuous celibates, and 'easy women'. (I know you didn't expressly use the word 'slut' but when you reference 'easy girls' who 'cannot keep [their] legs closed'... well, I think the meaning is clear.) And you seem to make no distinction between women who only have one-night-stands and flings, and women in long-term, unmarried, but sexually active relationships... they all seem to be painted as 'easy girls' to one degree or another.
I don't relate to the ideas that if I have a sexual relationship with my partner, then I possess little self-control, that his real love for me is dubious, or that my willingness to share physical intimacy is a poor reflection on my ability to respect his 'assets' or bring value to his 'last name'.
It just doesn't seem from your article, particularly that last paragraph, that you have a very high opinion of anyone who doesn't make a man wait at least "a year or so" before sex. Perhaps you feel that's a fair assessment, but I find it jarring on a site that's meant to be about personal empowerment.
DontBeASlut
· 11 months ago
I'm a "previously promiscuous" woman who, through a combination of circumstances and choice, has been celibate for most of the past 10 years. (At year 4 1/2 and year 6, I had brief, unsatisfying dalliances that only confirmed that celibacy is the best choice for me.)
Like you, I absolutely love sex. Miss it. Crave it.
And like you, I don't miss the icky feeling afterward of being used or of misplacing my affections.
I'm holding out for a life partner. Until then, my only "man" is battery-powered.
suzym
· 11 months ago
Interesting article. I recently decided to become celibate after a the end of a two-year relationship which I thought would culminate in marriage. Approaching 30, I look back and realize that I have very rarely been single, and never for very long. I don't know myself. At least not outside of the context of being in a relationship. Finding myself single and without the usual next guy waiting in the wings was terrifying initially, and is now incredibly liberating. I agree that sometimes (not always as some commenters have pointed out) sex can be self-destructive to a woman, especially when physical intimacy is used as a pathway to commitment. What's missing from your essay, however is a discussion of celibacy beyond denying sex. What about using the opportunity to get to know yourself, your ambitions, your likes and dislikes, developing your self-esteem from within, and strengthening the bonds you have with your friends, male and female? There are plenty of good reasons to take a break from sex that should have nothing to do with proving your worth to a man. I read a lot of negativity in your essay, especially in the idea that abstaining from sex makes a woman more superior and in-control of her body than a woman who answers natural urges, and in the story of the male "friend" who abandoned you when sex was off the table. Look at the all of the positive things you can build in your life through celibacy, instead of thinking of it as just a denial of physical pleasures while waiting for the "right" man to appreciate your sacrifice. Anyway, good luck with your decision. I myself am excited about being independent and focused solely on what's good for me!
Sharon
· 11 months ago
Hi Gwen, Thank you for sharing your story with us, I applaud you. It's never too late to start making right choices. You have given a voice to my heart. A virtuous woman is indeed, more valuable than riches. I admire you.
Edison
· 10 months ago
So what you're doing is denying yourself the pleasure of sex and justifying it by thinking you're avoiding pregnancy, STDs and having "countless" sexual partners by the time you turn 30 ?
You can have sex often and still avoid those problems. Ultimately, it is just the fear of "something" that keeps you away from sex, despite the fact there are measures you could take to prevent those unwanted situations.
It wouldn't surprise me if you were celibate till august, only to start having sex again afterwards. Why not do the better thing and admit you're human, accept things as they are and not make commitments you can't keep. It's fine to have sex because it's fun, the only people who'd say otherwise are those who would have something to gain from you not doing it.
Mike
· 10 months ago
It is obvious that the twentysomethings around the world are totally wrong about their sex practices, especially when you see college age kids having all kinds of unprotected sex on the internet. I haven't had sex for almost ten years and am proud of it. It is obvious that the middle age generation is in control. Look at Obama, he is 47 years old. I am 49 and am sure to say that neither the post world war two generation and those people in their twenties and early thirties are acting responsibly and have no clue to what is right and wrong. Post world war two people are holding their fortunes so boomer and xers struggle financially. It is obvious that these people are jelous of how the world has changed and want to take us with them to their grave when they should be settling their affairs so life can go on. Twenty somethings are ruining the whole landscape when it comes to their sex lives.
Mike
· 10 months ago
Edison you don't have a leg to stand on. I am not responsible for your sex life nor responsible if you get aids. That's your problem. People are choosing not to have sex because of all the diseases. Go back to your putting your ass on the internet and having unprotected sex like you twentysomethings are doing. You will all die from aids with what you are doing. It shows that your generation has poor judgement .
Vijay Kumar
· 9 months ago
Celibacy is just not what people in the West presume it to be. The sexual abstinence amounts to hardly 10% of the job. 90% celibacy is practiced mentally. Observing absolute purity of thought is what Celibacy is all about! The day invocation of sensual thoughts stops forever... one practically reaches the end of celibacy.
christi
· 7 months ago
i want to know if i can say i am celibate since i have not had sex with anybody but myself in two years
Violeta
· 7 months ago
I love this piece! I have been celibate for 4 year now and will continue to be until marriage. It takes a lot of strength to be honest with oneself about sex and the emotional dissatisfaction that can come with it; especially when everything in popular culture is so sex-obsessed.
All Comments
For me your tone changed with "countless sexual partners..." going from inclusive to exclusive--putting down others who had made the opposite decision.
Even though I'm not celibate I can definitely count my partners, I don't consider myself "easy" or a dime a dozen, and miraculously, I can walk down the street without my uncontrollable legs just springing open. Further, I'm looking for self-worth, not for someone to decide I'm worthy of their assets and name.
I agree with much of what you wrote in this piece but the negative turn really threw me.
But I wonder if your attitude towards feminists (some of whom couldn't care less about getting married as a goal in life - I'm one of them!) and women who have a lot of partners (are we still calling women sluts and men studs?!) is a little derisive. Women can be emotional and intelligent and self-respecting and want to have a lot of sex with different people, just as men can - to each their own.
You say "Because sex is such an emotional act, particularly for women, it can often lead to feelings of unworthiness, self-loathing, depression, and uncertainty about the direction of the relationship if there is no foundation of marital commitment." That sounds really sad to me - and I'm not sure it's true for the majority of women.
You're also not differentiating between long-term relationships and one night stands, when I think there's a lot of difference - it's not always marriage or no commitment at all.
But you certainly made me think about all this, so thank you :)
At first I admired your honesty and courage as a sexually awakened woman making an unusual decision, and then, like others, was surprised by the sudden degeneration into 'slut-shaming'.
Fine, premarital sex doesn't work for you. But how do you move from that conclusion to making barbs at 'easy' girls who 'can't keep their legs together'? If a woman chooses not to be celibate before marriage, does that automatically put her in the category of 'STD-ridden, single-mother slut with no self-control? Your column seems to suggest you think so. 'Easy girls are a dime-a-dozen'? Really? And of all the wonderful, attractive qualities these women might possess, any decent man would/should pass them up in favour of someone who can 'keep their legs closed'?
I have plenty of friends whose loving partners were only too happy to slip a ring on their unchaste fingers... yes, even a few whose relationships started with sex on the very first date! And then there are those for whom a wedding is not the ultimate payoff in a relationship, but who are in very happy long-term partnerships regardless.
Perhaps your celibacy gives you a sense of superiority over those who have not made the same choice, but I'm not sure many people find that an attractive quality.
@Pearl and Emajin: Thanks so much for your shared sentiments. That book on the girlsgonemild.com site looks like something I need to get my hands on. Thanks, Pearl!
@LaLou and Mel: Hmmm...I'm not so sure you have interpreted my statements in the manner in which they were intended. If they weren't clear, allow me to clarify now: I don't believe I have bashed anyone. I began by stating my reasons for my celibacy and concluded by stating how I came to this reasoning. There is obviously a large difference between promiscuous women and those who have sex with only their partners. I assumed it was explicit that I was not speaking of every single woman who is not celibate. Celibacy isn't for everybody; I know this. But it's for me at this stage in my life. I believe, someone with countless sex partners before the age of 25 or 30 would fall into the promiscuous category. If you can't count the number of partners you've had, there is a problem. I believe most people would agree with me on this. If I were "bashing" everyone who had sex before marriage, I would be bashing myself, as well, yes? I haven't done that.
Also, I'm not quite sure where the idea that I have called anyone a slut comes from. I haven't mentioned the word "slut" anywhere at all. In fact, I've stated "in my opinion" and "in my experience" several times throughout, which would mean these are conclusions I have come to based on my personal experiences. My story is bound to be different from others, which I am aware of. Celibacy does not give me a sense of superiority and no one (male or female) who I have come in contact with has seemed to feel as if I am putting myself on a pedestal (and I do know quite a few outspoken folks who would tell me if I was getting out of hand. LOL). However, in my opinion, it does take tremendous inner strength to choose celibacy and actually remain celibate, especially when you aren't a virgin, and therefore, have a real idea of what sex feels like (emotionally and physically). I have a very close male friend who plays in the NFL and has been celibate for just under four years. Now if that's not an example of inner strength (with all the groupies he comes in contact with, ready to give him whatever he wants), I don't know what is. If I am "bashing" anyone at all, it would be the men who I stated feel as if a celibate woman thinks she's "too good" -- and I haven't even bashed them.
The point I attempt to make is that if a man can't be with you without the sex aspect, he is not worthy of you. Heck, I had a "friend" who I knew for years. He made it clear over the years he wanted something more than a friendship, but was fine with settling for that role. Once I became celibate, he and I had a conversation about it, and I have not heard from him since that day. Obviously, this wasn't a friend to begin with. This is the type of thing I am talking about. Since choosing to be celibate, I have learned so much about the men in my life, it's ridiculous. Some have disappeared, others have stuck around. For me, in the past, sex has overshadowed a lot of good and bad I could have learned about someone. By not having sex, there are so many deal breakers I discover at the beginning because (again, for me) great sex isn't in the way to blindside my good sense.
Hope that clears things up. :)
@Diane, Thanks for your comments! Again, I think I may have been misunderstood. I don't have a bad attitude toward feminists. I do know some feminists who really loathe men (many would call them bra-burners, which usually isn't true. lol) and I only intended to make clear that I do not hate men. Also, a great deal of women I work with do suffer depression, self-loathing and the other symptoms mentioned, after they have sex with someone they really want a future with. Of course, this doesn't apply to everyone, but many cannot handle the emotional aspects that derive from sex. They start bugging the guy about "where this is going", hounding him about his whereabouts, assuming they are in relationships when (for him) it was just sex, etc. But I do agree with you, it is very sad. :(
If your body is your temple, I don't see how anyone (male or female) can have lots of sex with lots of different people and be self-respecting, but then again, that depends on what you determine to be "a lot". I know a man that has had sex with 143 women and he is 30 years old. (and no, I wouldn't call him a stud...at all. LOL)
Gwen Jimmere
http://www.TheDuckWalk.com
Thanks for taking the time to respond! The phrase "bra burners" just happens to get my back up, as does the suggestion that feminists hate men. But if you're not saying or suggesting all feminists are rabid man-haters, then okay.
You say "If you can't count the number of partners you've had, there is a problem." but why is that, exactly? Apart from the risk of STDs that is... I just don't think it's anyone's right to judge others and I feel that women are too often criticised for being sexual beings.
And I guess my main issue is that you're extrapolating what you deeply feel so that it becomes fact, or something a lot of women feel/believe. I think I would have just preferred to read about your experiences, without them being compared with other women. We never really know what motivates others, after all.
I think women who obsess over relationships don't necessarily need celibacy, but if it takes over their lives, may need therapy -- or at least to look at why they're obsessing. Insecurity? Loneliness? Self-hatred?
If celibacy is the right choice for you that's great and I can understand that choice. But towards the end of your piece, where you say "As a woman, what does it say about someone who possesses so little control that she cannot keep her legs closed for a year or so until the guy that supposedly loves her decides she is worthy of his assets as well as his last name?"
It just felt so old-fashioned and unfeminist (as in, rules are different for women, women should have self control so men want them, whether a couple has sex is always down to a woman's self-control or lack thereof) and I couldn't and didn't want to relate to that.
x
I don't relate to the ideas that if I have a sexual relationship with my partner, then I possess little self-control, that his real love for me is dubious, or that my willingness to share physical intimacy is a poor reflection on my ability to respect his 'assets' or bring value to his 'last name'.
It just doesn't seem from your article, particularly that last paragraph, that you have a very high opinion of anyone who doesn't make a man wait at least "a year or so" before sex. Perhaps you feel that's a fair assessment, but I find it jarring on a site that's meant to be about personal empowerment.
Like you, I absolutely love sex. Miss it. Crave it.
And like you, I don't miss the icky feeling afterward of being used or of misplacing my affections.
I'm holding out for a life partner. Until then, my only "man" is battery-powered.
I agree that sometimes (not always as some commenters have pointed out) sex can be self-destructive to a woman, especially when physical intimacy is used as a pathway to commitment. What's missing from your essay, however is a discussion of celibacy beyond denying sex. What about using the opportunity to get to know yourself, your ambitions, your likes and dislikes, developing your self-esteem from within, and strengthening the bonds you have with your friends, male and female? There are plenty of good reasons to take a break from sex that should have nothing to do with proving your worth to a man.
I read a lot of negativity in your essay, especially in the idea that abstaining from sex makes a woman more superior and in-control of her body than a woman who answers natural urges, and in the story of the male "friend" who abandoned you when sex was off the table. Look at the all of the positive things you can build in your life through celibacy, instead of thinking of it as just a denial of physical pleasures while waiting for the "right" man to appreciate your sacrifice.
Anyway, good luck with your decision. I myself am excited about being independent and focused solely on what's good for me!
Thank you for sharing your story with us, I applaud you. It's never too late to start making right choices. You have given a voice to my heart. A virtuous woman is indeed, more valuable than riches. I admire you.
You can have sex often and still avoid those problems. Ultimately, it is just the fear of "something" that keeps you away from sex, despite the fact there are measures you could take to prevent those unwanted situations.
It wouldn't surprise me if you were celibate till august, only to start having sex again afterwards.
Why not do the better thing and admit you're human, accept things as they are and not make commitments you can't keep. It's fine to have sex because it's fun, the only people who'd say otherwise are those who would have something to gain from you not doing it.